City of Highland Park Plan and Design Commission met Dec. 17.
Here is the minutes provided by the commission:
I. CALL TO ORDER
At 7:30 PM Vice Chair Reinstein called the meeting to order and asked Director Fontane to call the roll.
II. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Glazer, Kutscheid, Lidawer, Reinstein
Members Absent: Hecht, Leaf, Pearlstein
Director Fontane took the roll and declared a quorum present.
Staff Present: Awsumb, Fontane, Jackson
Student Rep.: Rubin
Council Liaison: Bloomberg, Schuster
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
December 3, 2019
Vice Chair Reinstein entertained a motion to approve the minutes of the December 3, 2019 meeting with corrections. Commissioner Lidawer so motioned, seconded by Commissioner Kutscheid. On a voice vote, the minutes were approved unanimously.
IV. SCHEDULED BUSINESS
1. Design Review - No items for consideration.
2. Continuation of Public Hearing #19-09-SUP-003 for a Restaurant with Dancing and Entertainment, a Conditional Land Use in the B2-RW Zoning District, for Ravinia Brewing located at 582 Roger Williams Ave.
3. Continuation of Public Hearing #19-09-SUP-004 for an Outdoor Restaurant, a Conditional Land Use in the B2-RW Zoning District, for Ravinia Brewing located at 582 Roger Williams Ave.
Items 2 and 3 will be heard concurrently.
Planner Jackson made a presentation for the above including location, beer garden behind restaurant, application summary, special use permits, previous consideration, Ravinia Brewing proposal, sound attenuation plan, neighborhood meeting, nuisances and special use permits, key questions and considerations, recommendation and next steps.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if the special use permit could be limited for a time period for a year.
Director Fontane stated you can limit time periods and the applicant would have to make an investment in the mitigation measures that would have an uncertainty associated with it.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated he thought it hinged on decibels and there is not anything in the plan that addresses decibels. It puts the onus on Council and the Commission to become experts on electrical engineering.
Mr. Schuster stated they have the ability to not allow the special uses. They can structure them in different ways whether it is coming back before the Commission for a one year special use permit and each year it could be reviewed at Council level. It is what they think is appropriate under the standards. The question is if the other conditions they require end up costing a significant amount of money to meet the conditions in a year appropriate.
Planner Jackson stated there were four letters of public testimony that should be entered in the record.
Commissioner Lidawer stated they had all the letters and emails previously, but they did not see this grouping.
Planner Jackson stated they were received this afternoon.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated the letters would be in the record and they would have the opportunity to review them.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked what is the nuisance code.
Planner Jackson mentioned Chapter 25 and stated it was subjective.
Director Fontane stated the time periods that pertain in this application are the periods the outdoor music would be allowed. The applicant has made proposals and should the Commission approve it, the special use permit can delineate the hours and times a week.
In those time periods, if they are done in accordance with the special use permit, they would not be considered nuisances.
Councilman Blumberg asked if there was a separate part of the code that references noise volume.
Director Fontane stated there is no decibel limitation.
Planner Jackson stated there are parts of the code that have requirements for specific noises like generators and air conditioners.
Commissioner Glazer stated both the police and staff recommended against a decibel level to be set in connection with this proposal and the police prefer to work with a different set of guidelines should they be summoned in regard to a noise complaint. He asked how they would respond to that.
Cmdr. Chris O’Neill, Highland Park Police, stated they try to locate the source of the noise and they will speak with the party and inform them there is a concern about the noise and ask them to turn it down. They try to inform people to be compliant. If a resident signs a complaint, they ask for a witness statement and video evidence.
Commissioner Glazer stated a 25-year old might be enjoying a certain decibel level, but a 75-year old might summon the police for the same level of noise. Without an objective standard how do the police decide whether an event is at a subjectively unreasonable decibel level.
Cmdr. O’Neill stated an officer might have an opinion about noise at 8:00 PM and a younger officer might not be disturbed by it. It is subjective and they are often in the middle. They are not trained for noise measuring devices nor are they equipped with it. If someone wants to pursue a complaint, they could issue a citation and they would have to be willing to go to court.
Commissioner Glazer asked what happens if someone is especially sensitive and complains about a noise level and is unhappy with it and someone else is not. If they sign a statement, does that mean that the noise level is unreasonable.
Cmdr. O’Neill stated they try to mediate it and asked them to turn it down. If it is not a clear violation such as a leaf blower or construction equipment after hours, they try for voluntary compliance.
Chief Jogmen, Highland Park Police, stated the majority of cases where they deal with this type of complaint are dealt with on the scene and are over. This is a unique situation in that it is recurring and they can ask them to turn it down. He understood the desire to have a hard and fast rule for decibels. They are aware of other municipalities who have this and it is not a panacea and does not necessarily fix the issue.
Chief Jogmen stated equipment varies and there are a lot of factors. Law enforcement generally does not do this.
Mr. Schuster stated it is a lot like light pollution and there are different ways to measure light. Noise is much the same way and decibels are one measure. It also depends on frequencies and how consistently it is above certain levels. There is a lot more than just a decibel reading. It is a reasonable person standard for an administrative officer or a judge to decide because there is not just one metric to look at. They have to look at all the different factors.
Director Fontane stated they are focusing on the measurement of sound to determine if it is acceptable and it is important to understand they are other ways to control the impact and to mitigate.
Commissioner Lidawer stated they are looking to do this so there are no complaints. She asked how can they craft something that is without a decibel level. If they have limiters on a multiple set of fronts, would that help with the number of calls.
Chief Jogmen stated if the neighborhood is comfortable with the sound mitigation and they restrict the hours that would put them in the best position. It hinges on their ability to mitigate the sound and limit the hours. He had concerns with officers responding to the majority of noise complaints in a certain way and in this instance they have to have noise meters and it gets convoluted. If they had the mitigation and time in place he thought that would work for them.
Commissioner Lidawer stated the reports from the officers and complaints were in the packet and the police were balancing it with a certain time of day.
Chief Jogmen stated they want to make everyone happy which is difficult. He thought if they had the sound attenuation and time in place and everyone understood it would be easy.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked for a definition of the week and weekend. Planner Jackson stated Friday and Saturday is the weekend.
Director Fontane stated they can define it as they wish.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked how Ravinia Brewing looked at the weekend.
Mr. Hoobler, Ravinia Brewing, Applicant, stated when they talk about the weekend it would be Friday and Saturday nights. It would be a three to four hour window. The band would be a Friday or Saturday night.
Mr. Hoobler made a presentation including the neighborhood has shown support, it is a financially viable business, want the business to support itself, has tried to do everything possible, putting a lot of requirements on themselves, time and money invested, need to be careful about what they are requesting, spent time with City staff and soundproofing companies, best way to address situation, no way to make it soundproof, done everything possible, putting restriction of themselves, will be better than last summer, weather conditions, need assurances for approval and not a trial, follow-ups from Sept. 17th meeting, season for live outdoor music events, do not expect to use year round, looking for May 1st to November 1st, schedule events in advance, dependent on weather, number of live music events each week is three limited to Friday and Saturday nights, one to two events during the week, one to three events on the weekend, end time for weekdays is 9:00 PM, end time for weekends is 10:00 PM, seating layout, fire code, sound attenuation system (SAS) discussion with Commission, clarify why amplification.
Director Fontane asked about the times.
Mr. Hoobler stated Friday would be 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM, Saturday would be 12:00 PM to 10:00 PM and Sunday would be 12:00 PM to 9:00 PM. No show would be longer than four hours with two breaks.
Commissioner Lidawer asked if they had spoken with the Fire Dept. about the maximum for outdoor seating.
Mr. Hoobler stated yes and the Fire Dept. may want to cut it down. They would look at flow paths and the ability for people to get to the exit.
Commissioner Lidawer asked if the blocker would be on one side or three.
Mr. Hoobler stated the easiest way is angling the speakers up. Their first try will be to put it across the fence and it is about 8.5’ high down to the ground. It may be more effective to put a curtain behind the band which is 20’ long.
Director Fontane asked about the layout.
Mr. Hoobler illustrated the layout of the seating layout and fence blocker. Vice Chair Reinstein asked what they are putting on the surrounding walls.
Mr. Hoobler stated they are reflections. The material is for stopping sounds from passing through to the neighbors to the south. They want to stop sound from reflecting. They can have heavy curtains in multiple layers. People in seats are good non-reflectors. They need curtains that are up higher and they cannot block the doorway. The biggest reflection comes off the top of the building.
Commissioner Glazer asked about the kind of curtain.
Mr. Hoobler stated standard curtains decoupled are almost as effective as heavy curtains. They are what they use in the theaters and they keep the sound back. The curtain does not allow it to reflect back.
Commissioner Glazer asked what they are made of.
Mr. Hoobler stated they have not picked out an exact curtain but they are basically the same material you would use in houses and certain ones are better.
Commissioner Lidawer asked about the 6’ and if it was from the top of the building.
Mr. Hoobler stated there would be a metal cord across the length of the building and hanging them down 6’ above ground.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked about the other two walls.
Mr. Hoobler stated there are two adjoining buildings and it gets into reflections going back and forth. They are concerned about the noise complaints.
Councilman Blumberg asked how much they are planning on spending on sound attenuation.
Mr. Hoobler stated the fence blockers will be a couple of thousand dollars and the curtains will be $1,000 - $2,000.
Councilman Blumberg stated it would be about $5,000 for the sound attenuation. He asked who would be the installer.
Mr. Hoobler stated they are going to do with their people.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated the time window is large for playing music and asked if that meant on a Sunday three different people could play.
Mr. Hoobler stated there is a three-hour maximum limit and they would not schedule more than one show a day.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if each music event is three hours maximum. Mr. Hoobler confirmed this.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated they had asked for three a week for a 26-week period. He asked if all those events could be outside.
Mr. Hoobler stated that would be the maximum that could happen. Last year they had 0-2 shows a week. The maximum would be 26 weeks and 3 shows.
Commissioner Lidawer asked if this was per week.
Mr. Hoobler stated the 26 weeks is the season and 78 music events.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated it was 78 music events each one of no more than three hours and each one could take place anytime during the proposed hours.
Mr. Hoobler stated there would be no more than one per day.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if they could turn the music down to help attenuate the sound.
Mr. Hoobler stated the goal is to control that and without a decibel reading it is difficult to have control over it.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if they just keep turning the music up it does not help. Mr. Hoobler stated they do not want it to be too loud in their area either.
Director Fontane stated there is a desire not to have decibel meters for enforcement purposes. As a private matter, they can use whatever devices they want to gauge how loud things are. They can do whatever they like to self manage.
Mr. Hoobler stated they want to self-manage and want the neighborhood to be happy with the results. It is not easy to self-manage and they do not want complaints. They will do their best so there are none.
Commissioner Kutscheid stated if they install the sound attenuation and it is still loud in the neighbors’ homes how do they address that.
Mr. Hoobler stated that is one of their concerns and there is an opinion of what is too loud. They do not want complaints and they will not abuse the sound. There is no magic bullet that will say this is good enough or they have gone far enough. They will do the best they can to make everyone happy but there are no guarantees.
Commissioner Glazer stated Ravinia Festival gets noise complaints and the police are called. Their proposal to do it within reasonable hours and sound attenuation makes sense. He asked if they knew of other Highland Park venues with live music.
Mr. Hoobler stated he did not. There are some in Highwood and Glencoe and they do not have sound attenuation.
Commissioner Glazer stated they are exceptional to offer this for the community. They want to make sure the neighbors’ concerns are addressed and last summer it was well received by much of the community. They want to make sure they do what they can to allow it continue.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked about the hours for outdoor dining.
Mr. Hoobler stated they go by the outdoor dining published by the City which is 10:30 PM.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if all activities would stop at 10:30 PM.
Mr. Hoobler stated they are supposed to stop then.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if this applied to weekdays and weekends. Mr. Hoobler stated he was not certain.
Director Fontane stated there was language in the certificate of occupancy regarding this. Commissioner Kutscheid asked if there was code regarding outdoor dining times. Director Fontane stated they should specify this as part of the special use permit.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated the need for the special use is to have activity after 10:30 PM. They should specify it as an outdoor restaurant and when they have to close down. It should be part of the special use parameters.
Director Fontane stated the occupancy permit has certain conditions in it and they were set administratively and if you go past the seating outside or hours it is no longer considered an accessory and becomes a principal use.
Mr. Hoobler stated they would still would request the 10:30 PM timeframe.
Commissioner Lidawer stated it would be 10:30 PM.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if there was a cover charge for a music event.
Mr. Hoobler stated they have never had a cover charge. They have not had a discussion on whether or not they would have one. He asked if there was a code for that.
Director Fontane stated he did not know. What they have before them is an outdoor restaurant with entertainment and they need to keep that in mind.
Commissioner Lidawer asked about the drapes and fence blocker and if they would start with the one fence blocker and the curtain. If they found it would help to have the blocker on the rest of the fence, would they be open to adding that.
Mr. Hoobler stated if they determined that it was needed they would add a pole behind the band and move band to where the fence blocker is at the building. If they find it is more effective to block that section they would move the fence blocker forward.
Commissioner Lidawer asked about the music before and if they were going for a permit each time.
Mr. Hoobler stated they were told they could have a trial and they provided their schedule and they would see how it went. They were allowed an occasional event.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated in the write up someone had a conversation with Ravinia and they are taking decibel measurements.
Director Fontane stated it is measured by them and not the City. Vice Chair Reinstein asked why they were doing it.
Director Fontane stated they are trying to be good neighbors and it is a private matter not a governmental enforcement.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked Mr. Hoobler if they had a decibel meter.
Mr. Hoobler stated they do and they would take different measurements. They do not want complaints.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if they did it last summer.
Mr. Hoobler stated they did. Decibel levels in the alley were 80. Further away from the establishment it was not loud at all.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated the issue is whether to do this for one year as a trial.
Mr. Hoobler stated they do not have knowledge or agreement on what the levels should be and they do not have guarantees on anything they do will be satisfactory.
Mr. Dan Burns, Resident, stated he objected to the proposal, need commitment to keep noise down, standard noise levels, noise ordinance levels, quantitative measures, Chicago uses 55 dba, band in beer garden is at 120 dba, not appropriate sound level, need more than presence of equipment.
Mr. Hoobler stated bands play in Chicago all the time with no sound attenuation devices. They have measured in multiple cities and the noises coming from the bands outside the property lines are 100 decibels all day long. They are confident theirs will be less than 90 decibels. A fire truck is 85 decibels. According to the STC ratings a typical insulated wall will knock it down another 30 decibels. It should not be more than 50 decibels in a house. They are confident it will not be that bad in anyone’s house.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated they have the definition of the season, a request for number of events per week, a stipulation that all the events per week can be outdoors, the times during the week and the weekend, window when the music events can take place, maximum time limit for the duration for the music event of three hours, times at night when the music event has to end. He thought the petitioners are good people and mean well and have learned more about this and are still learning. He liked the idea of setting parameters for the upcoming season and seeing how they do with the attenuation plan.
Commissioner Kutscheid stated he was struggling with the definition of raucous noise levels and how it is defined. If it is a continuing problem how do they manage it.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if he thought decibels play a part in this.
Commissioner Kutscheid thought there was a difference between sound and noise and one is pleasing and one is not. He was working on a project where sound is important and they hired an audiologist to do a study to find the existing decibels at a site in Deerfield. It was 55 decibels of background noise. It was the starting point they used to decide what the impact of sound was.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked how they could make use of this with the situation tonight. Commissioner Kutscheid stated sound doubles at every eight decibels and 90 is a lot.
Commissioner Glazer stated they judge applications by subjective standards as to whether the ask is reasonable and whether the applicant is proceeding responsibly. He thought the applicant meets both of these criteria. It is an unusual request and there are no other venues in Highland Park that offer this. He thought Highland Park needs a venue like this and maybe more. They wonder why young people are not coming to Highland Park and they express concern they have to go downtown to find evening recreational activities. They should be warming up to Ravinia Brewing and what they are trying to accomplish. What they have proposed is to try to minimize the effect of the music and it is a responsible approach. He did not agree with the concept of trying to put it on an experimental basis on the approval and they have not done it anywhere else. When the School Dist. wanted to change the sound system at Wolter’s Field they had neighbors complaining about the impact and they did not say the District has to come back in a year. He did not think the ask was too much and they have proceeded responsibly and he was in favor of the petition because it benefits the community and they have taken reasonable steps to mitigate the adverse effects.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if he would impose any limitations.
Commissioner Glazer stated the hours are reasonable and three times a week is reasonable. The idea of capturing the number of performances and hours in which they would play are reasonable limitations.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if they could keep the nuisance code as written as part of the approval.
Commissioner Glazer stated that Mr. Burns mentioned what would happen if a complaint was brought and if the police were contacted they would respond and use their subjective standards if it was appropriate or not.
Councilman Blumberg stated if it passes the nuisance ordinance is not going to apply during these hours.
Commissioner Glazer stated that does not mean that the police cannot apply their own subjective standards.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated his understanding of the officers’ testimony was to give them hours and they can determine music on and music off.
Mr. Schuster stated under the code they have the unreasonableness standard and that applies everyday in the City. The exception is in 95.005 of the code that says “activities approved as part of a special use permit granted pursuant to Chapter 150 but only to the extent that such noises are specifically identified in an approved ordinance granting such special use permit.” This means that the normal standard would not apply if they grant a special use permit and call out the activity and say you can do it pursuant to the special use permit. The police could say keep it down, but if they are in accordance with the special use ordinance, but nuisance regulations would not apply.
Commissioner Glazer stated the police could respond but could not issue a citation. If the proposal was to recommend that the nuisance standard would continue to apply that would change things in the sense that if the police subjectively determined that a citation was appropriate he could then issue it.
Mr. Schuster stated the reasonable standard would apply.
Commissioner Glazer stated he would go along with Commissioner Kutscheid’s suggestion.
Commissioner Lidawer stated it is defined as reasonable according to the ordinance and she commended the neighbors and the petitioner because they have tried to educate themselves regarding decibels. She thought they have a rare opportunity to bring in businesses that will enhance the neighborhood and build the community. She thought the petitioner had acted in good faith. If you go in a restaurant and you cannot hear you would not go back. And why would they want to be unreasonable and loud and incur the wrath of the neighborhood. She thought they had all been reasonable and the City had specifically asked them not to put the police in the position of having to police this and determine the decibel level. She thought they should take them at their word that they would act in a reasonable manner. If they are making this investment in their business and community why would they act unreasonably. She did not like the decibel cap as a measure and staff has asked for various components. Working with a reasonable petitioner who would take the 90 minus the 29 for the curtain and blocker. She was opposed to the time trial and does not want to discourage petitioners from coming forward. She thought it was great for the neighborhood. Fred’s in Winnetka has music outdoors all the time and it is packed with neighborhood people. There is no parking problem because the people are walking over. She hoped the Commission would see this through.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated people have cited Wolter’s field and the noise as a reason they should not pay too much attention to the decibels. He thought it was an example of them having to come back for some rules. The $5000 for sound attenuation is a pittance compared to what people have in their homes. He stood by the one year because if the magic is in the sound attenuation and they do not get it right there is no place for the neighbors to say it is still too loud and maybe the blanket should wrap around the whole enclosure. They could ask them to do this tonight and then maybe they would not have to come back in a year. He thought it was reasonable to take this approach.
Vice Chair Reinstein entertained a motion to draft findings of fact and in the findings there are two that talk about the neighbors’ rights to enjoy their home and not to be subjected to bothersome noise.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked Commissioner Lidawer if she wanted address the outdoor restaurant.
Commissioner Lidawer stated yes.
Commissioner Lidawer so motioned and stated they could do the maximum of 90, seating subject to Fire Dept. approval and activity to cease at 10:30 PM as specified in the certificate of occupancy. Commissioner Kutscheid seconded.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated it was motion to have staff draft findings of fact granting the special use permit recommending approval for the outdoor restaurant.
Director Fontane called the roll:
Ayes: Lidawer, Kutscheid, Glazer, Reinstein
Nays: None
Motion carried 4-0.
Director Fontane stated this was to direct staff to draft findings of fact in the affirmative with the conditions specified. They are talking about the sound attenuation proposal presented.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated this had not been addressed. Commissioner Lidawer stated there are two separate motions.
Director Fontane asked if this was for the outdoor or indoor restaurant. Commissioner Lidawer stated for outdoor seating.
Commissioner Lidawer motioned to grant the petitioner the right to have music indoors and outdoors subject to the conditions set forth in the proposal to draft findings of fact in accordance with the proposal which requests the season from May 1st to November 1st with events limited to no more than three per week with one event per day, no event being longer than three hours, Fridays from 5:00 PM to 10:00 PM, Saturdays from 12:00 PM to 10:00 PM, Sundays from 12:00 PM to 9:00 PM and Monday through Thursday from 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM, they accept the sound attenuation plan as presented. Should the petitioner deem they need additional remediation they would pay for same. It is left to their discretion to reevaluate the reasonableness in terms of sound attenuation as well as performance levels.
Commissioner Glazer stated there may be three live music events per week, but only one band.
Councilman Blumberg stated they needed to define band and what if the second musician is a drummer with a large drum combo.
Commissioner Lidawer said it is irrelevant.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if they were leaving it to the petitioner to decide what is unreasonable noise.
Commissioner Lidawer stated yes.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked about a friendly amendment that encompasses the concept that the petitioner agrees to take neighbors’ considerations and to minimize the impact on an on-going basis.
Commissioner Lidawer stated they should make it clear in the findings that they expect the petitioner to work with the neighbors.
Mr. Schuster stated they may want to include the exception in the code that says “that special use ordinance shall call out such noises specifically.” He suggested music be permitted.
Commissioner Kutscheid asked if the petitioner is the sole decider of reasonable.
Commissioner Lidawer stated they are trusting the petitioner to be a good neighbor.
Commissioner Glazer stated they could have some protection in the form of allowing the City’s general nuisance ordinance to continue to apply as some level of protection and it is not an unreasonable restriction on the applicant. He would support the motion if they allowed the nuisance ordinance to apply. He did not think you had to be immune from that ordinance.
Commissioner Lidawer stated they do not want repeated calls to the police because someone judges differently from someone else. They are carving out anexception to the nuisance ordinance. They are asking for findings of fact so they can send something to Council.
Director Fontane stated they can approve a recommendation without making it an exception. They would like to hear from the Commission in terms of directing findings, which choice they are making and if they do make an exception they define it and specify what it is.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated they had been receptive to an all encompassing amendment where they commit to working with the neighbors and a second one where they proposed nuisance ordinance not be exempt to the music but would still apply.
Commissioner Lidawer stated she preferred the motion that it is an exception.
Vice Chair Reinstein stated the understanding is that the motion is on the floor with the one amendment.
Commissioner Glazer seconded. Director Fontane called the roll:
Ayes: Lidawer
Nays: Kutscheid, Glazer, Reinstein
Motion failed 1-3.
Commissioner Lidawer stated she would make the same motion instead of carving it out as exempt from the nuisance motion and keep it as part of the nuisance motion. Commissioner Glazer seconded.
Director Fontane called the roll:
Ayes: Lidawer, Kutscheid, Glazer, Reinstein
Nays: None
Motion carried 4-0.
Director Fontane stated the recommendation would be with the conditions stated and that the nuisance code would apply to live entertainment.
Mr. Schuster stated the vote was to prepare findings and that the conditions may change and not be the same at the next meeting. This will be back for final vote and recommendation at a future meeting.
Vice Chair Reinstein asked if they should keep the public hearing open.
Director Fontane stated the date would be January 21, 2020 and the two items will be continued.
Vice Chair Reinstein entertained a motion to continue to January 21, 2020. Commissioner Kutscheid so motioned.
Commissioner Lidawer stated she would not be present.
Director Fontane stated six seats are filled for next year.
Director Fontane stated the next available date is February 4, 2020.
Vice Chair Reinstein entertained a motion to continue to February 4, 2020. Commissioner Lidawer so motioned, seconded by Commissioner Kutscheid. On a voice vote, the motion carried unanimously.
4. Ravinia Streetscape Improvements Overview
Commissioner Kutscheid stated he had been employed by Ratio Architects two years ago and had no financial interests in this item.
Deputy Director Awsumb made a presentation for the above item including past planning, Hitchcock plan, Strand study, infrastructure improvement action plan, milestone memo (July 2018), streetscape and lighting, goals and objectives, streetscape overview, streetscape elements and next steps.
Commissioner Glazer stated they were looking for feedback in response to an email to be sent and asked if they should do that by email.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated yes email was the easiest. They have until the end of January.
Commissioner Lidawer stated a lot of money and time was spent on this and asked if it was within their jurisdiction to recommend its use in other areas of Highland Park.
Councilman Blumberg stated some years ago the Commission considered proposals for updating the streetscape and planning for downtown.
Director Fontane stated the downtown project and this project inform one another so they are not in isolation.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated they were both based in the City’s official branding. Some of the design comes from that and some was based on public feedback. Some liked the elements at Rosewood Beach and the newer components at the Botanical Gardens and some of the materials are more common in landscape architecture and public infrastructure. The City has a TIF district specific to the Roger Williams corridor where the businesses are. It has to be spent within those boundaries. This was a dedicated funding source.
Commissioner Lidawer stated the accent seating was awful.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated some people really love the wave benches. The TIF expires in 2028. There is a certain element of revisiting these.
Commissioner Kutscheid stated the furniture should be skate resistant. One thing on Central Ave. that has been successful with making a connection between the two sides east and west of the tracks and there is an opportunity for Brown Park to help accomplish that in the Ravinia neighborhood to help connect both sides of the track.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated there was discussion about that and east and west of tracks was discussed. All the events go on in Jens Jensen park, but nothing goes on in Brown Park and maybe they could balance the special events. They can circle back and take a look at Brown Park.
Commissioner Kutscheid stated the connection can be strengthened through the hardscape design of the corridor between the east and west.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated when it is dark you can look down the corridor and it fades to black.
Commissioner Glazer asked about the quality of the public feedback and was happy they received some valuable response.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated there was a good amount of outreach and sometimes small groups give complexity and layers to issues. Going to different venues also helped. There was consensus that lights would be a benefit.
Mr. Walter Hainsfurther asked about parklets.
Deputy Director Awsumb stated these were designed as if the business district wanted to pursue them and these were the recommended ways. Some businesses said they needed more outdoor dining or places to sit and due to the ROW and sidewalk the only way to do it is seasonal. Some businesses said that was fine but they needed parking. There was no clear consensus.
V. OTHER BUSINESS
1. Administrative Design Review Approvals - None
2. Next Regular Meeting - January 7, 2020
3. Case Briefing - None
VI. BUSINESS FROM THE PUBLIC
Commissioner Lidawer stated the accent seating was awful.
None
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Vice Chair Reinstein entertained a motion to adjourn. Commissioner Kutscheid so motioned, seconded by Commissioner Lidawer. On a voice vote, the motion passed unanimously.
The Plan and Design Commission adjourned at 10:15 PM.
http://highlandparkil.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=12&ID=2308&Inline=True
Alerts Sign-up